Comments on: “The Black Church Is Dead, Long Live The Black Church?” http://nildoctrine.com/nil/the-black-church-is-dead-long-live-the-black-church/ from the makers of Ill Doctrine Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:05:09 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4 By: MJ3 http://nildoctrine.com/nil/the-black-church-is-dead-long-live-the-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3615 MJ3 Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:39:08 +0000 http://nildoctrine.com/nil/?p=358#comment-3615 Hey, Do you know of a place to buy an audio copy of this blind boys song?! I need this in my life. Hey,
Do you know of a place to buy an audio copy of this blind boys song?!
I need this in my life.

]]> By: max http://nildoctrine.com/nil/the-black-church-is-dead-long-live-the-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3549 max Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:17:21 +0000 http://nildoctrine.com/nil/?p=358#comment-3549 I wonder why the cats who wrote the article about the death of the black church didn't ask any black women to comment. Anyway, two things come to mind. First, we need to think about the black religious experience in a way that goes beyond the Christian experience. Two, yes it's dead if one is thinking about at theopolitical institution that C. Eric Lincoln and Lawrence H.Mamiya wrote about in the book, The Black Church in the African American Experience. I wonder why the cats who wrote the article about the death of the black church didn’t ask any black women to comment. Anyway, two things come to mind. First, we need to think about the black religious experience in a way that goes beyond the Christian experience. Two, yes it’s dead if one is thinking about at theopolitical institution that C. Eric Lincoln and Lawrence H.Mamiya wrote about in the book, The Black Church in the African American Experience.

]]> By: lavarrock http://nildoctrine.com/nil/the-black-church-is-dead-long-live-the-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3542 lavarrock Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:01:04 +0000 http://nildoctrine.com/nil/?p=358#comment-3542 I guess the black church and mainstream hip-hop both at times subscribe to a prosperity theology which tends to turn people off certain people who yearn for more than what both have to offer. I am a buddhist but if more preachers were like Dr. MLK JR. or CT Vivien, I would probably be more inclined to check out a black church regardless of what my belief system may be. I guess the black church and mainstream hip-hop both at times subscribe to a prosperity theology which tends to turn people off certain people who yearn for more than what both have to offer. I am a buddhist but if more preachers were like Dr. MLK JR. or CT Vivien, I would probably be more inclined to check out a black church regardless of what my belief system may be.

]]> By: Jay http://nildoctrine.com/nil/the-black-church-is-dead-long-live-the-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3540 Jay Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:20:07 +0000 http://nildoctrine.com/nil/?p=358#comment-3540 I don’t think the Black Church is dead, but rather the mentality of people having everything on their terms is very much alive. Choice, freedom, opportunity all important ideals for a people to embrace, but previous generations hedged those three ideals against what is best for the collective whole. Now, not so much, if you disagree with a religious leader’s approach or stance on an issue, you leave that group, sometime for another faction or you roll solo. Because you can become successful without being affiliated with a Black Church or with a religion at all, folks are more prone to take that route, even if it is at the expense of the collective group. For the record that is IF it is at the expense of the collective group. There is a cost to be paid for getting up early on a Sabbath day, being held to a routine and to a larger extend a social standard. Because people of faith are affected by the same pains of reality like non- believers are it is a bit of a tough sell to some, to be apart of church/religious group. Why would I do something when I do not get any tangible return? So, people decide to not invest the time or effort. The connection between Hip Hop and the question of whether the Black church is dead to me is simple: Authentication. It is completely possible to be a corporate general and have the skills and appreciation for hip hop as someone who did not even make it out of boot camp. Same can be said within the black church, the size of your congregation has replaced the depth of your teaching as the new standard of importance. I don’t think neither the Black church or Hip Hop is dead, but their collective value systems have been so comprised that they no long connect or reflect much of anything which used to be held as significance to their founding membership. I don’t think the Black Church is dead, but rather the mentality of people having everything on their terms is very much alive. Choice, freedom, opportunity all important ideals for a people to embrace, but previous generations hedged those three ideals against what is best for the collective whole. Now, not so much, if you disagree with a religious leader’s approach or stance on an issue, you leave that group, sometime for another faction or you roll solo. Because you can become successful without being affiliated with a Black Church or with a religion at all, folks are more prone to take that route, even if it is at the expense of the collective group. For the record that is IF it is at the expense of the collective group. There is a cost to be paid for getting up early on a Sabbath day, being held to a routine and to a larger extend a social standard. Because people of faith are affected by the same pains of reality like non- believers are it is a bit of a tough sell to some, to be apart of church/religious group. Why would I do something when I do not get any tangible return? So, people decide to not invest the time or effort. The connection between Hip Hop and the question of whether the Black church is dead to me is simple: Authentication. It is completely possible to be a corporate general and have the skills and appreciation for hip hop as someone who did not even make it out of boot camp. Same can be said within the black church, the size of your congregation has replaced the depth of your teaching as the new standard of importance. I don’t think neither the Black church or Hip Hop is dead, but their collective value systems have been so comprised that they no long connect or reflect much of anything which used to be held as significance to their founding membership.

]]> By: NOVA http://nildoctrine.com/nil/the-black-church-is-dead-long-live-the-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3539 NOVA Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:38:55 +0000 http://nildoctrine.com/nil/?p=358#comment-3539 ....lately i've been really going through a lot with religon...who's lying...who's telling the truth....what's right...what's wrong.....who fucked up everything to begin with. Growing up, I went to some white churches and spent some time in black churces. There is something that always came from somewhere "deeper" (if you will) when I would attend a black church. Something that touched me deeper than words from some guy with a robe on behind a rostrum. The black church is still alive......but just like me....i get the feeling (ESPECIALLY after 9/11) A LOOOOOT of people have A LOTTTTTT of questions about A LOOOOOOTTTTT of things. Just saying..... IT'S CULTURE CRAZY, NOVA www.novatribe.com ….lately i’ve been really going through a lot with religon…who’s lying…who’s telling the truth….what’s right…what’s wrong…..who fucked up everything to begin with.

Growing up, I went to some white churches and spent some time in black churces. There is something that always came from somewhere “deeper” (if you will) when I would attend a black church. Something that touched me deeper than words from some guy with a robe on behind a rostrum.

The black church is still alive……but just like me….i get the feeling (ESPECIALLY after 9/11) A LOOOOOT of people have A LOTTTTTT of questions about A LOOOOOOTTTTT of things.

Just saying…..

IT’S CULTURE CRAZY,
NOVA
http://www.novatribe.com

]]> By: Livication http://nildoctrine.com/nil/the-black-church-is-dead-long-live-the-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3536 Livication Sun, 21 Mar 2010 14:30:19 +0000 http://nildoctrine.com/nil/?p=358#comment-3536 Been following your blog for a little while and can definitely relate to feeling as though the Black church has played an important role for the community -- even as a non-theist/agnost. However, in my personal experiences with the Black church, I took more offense (even as a wee little girl in the South) to some of the intolerant things I heard. I often left church wondering how the things I heard floating around church, even from the ordained, could be true when I had experienced something different. I suppose historically the church has encouraged social action, and some churches today still do. (I was actually invited to a conference in another state to assist in discussing sexual assault in the Black community and what the church community's responsibility is in creating a safe space for victims)/However, I've also noted the detriment that is caused STILL today by the things that I hear younger church-going folks saying. At any rate, I got up this morning and stumbled across a video and immediately thought of your blog and this particular post. As a hip hop head and non-theist, I thought it was dope. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAYVY2eLMck&feature=player_embedded Be Righteous. Been following your blog for a little while and can definitely relate to feeling as though the Black church has played an important role for the community — even as a non-theist/agnost. However, in my personal experiences with the Black church, I took more offense (even as a wee little girl in the South) to some of the intolerant things I heard. I often left church wondering how the things I heard floating around church, even from the ordained, could be true when I had experienced something different. I suppose historically the church has encouraged social action, and some churches today still do. (I was actually invited to a conference in another state to assist in discussing sexual assault in the Black community and what the church community’s responsibility is in creating a safe space for victims)/However, I’ve also noted the detriment that is caused STILL today by the things that I hear younger church-going folks saying.
At any rate, I got up this morning and stumbled across a video and immediately thought of your blog and this particular post. As a hip hop head and non-theist, I thought it was dope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAYVY2eLMck&feature=player_embedded

Be Righteous.

]]> By: Interesting http://nildoctrine.com/nil/the-black-church-is-dead-long-live-the-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3534 Interesting Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:55:10 +0000 http://nildoctrine.com/nil/?p=358#comment-3534 I think the Black church that I grew up in seem pretty antiquated now. The whole format of only men being in the pulpit, the sexist and homophobic messages that are subtle and not-so-subtle in the messages, etc.n just seem irrelevant and narrow-minded.I find that the mainstream(predominately White, nondenominational) churches seem to be more open and accepting of different views. I think the Black church that I grew up in seem pretty antiquated now. The whole format of only men being in the pulpit, the sexist and homophobic messages that are subtle and not-so-subtle in the messages, etc.n just seem irrelevant and narrow-minded.I find that the mainstream(predominately White, nondenominational) churches seem to be more open and accepting of different views.

]]> By: chicken&waffles http://nildoctrine.com/nil/the-black-church-is-dead-long-live-the-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3533 chicken&waffles Sun, 21 Mar 2010 03:43:37 +0000 http://nildoctrine.com/nil/?p=358#comment-3533 Ummm.. did someone mention that "today," alot of the black churches are led by use-to-be "old G's" with prison/recovery/institutional thinking....hence another casualty of the crack revolution (sighs).. BTW... the rap and R&b influence put into gospel music is just sad and feels and sounds like plastic.boring. Ummm.. did someone mention that “today,” alot of the black churches are led by use-to-be “old G’s” with prison/recovery/institutional thinking….hence another casualty of the crack revolution (sighs)..

BTW… the rap and R&b influence put into gospel music is just sad and feels and sounds like plastic.boring.

]]> By: dmf http://nildoctrine.com/nil/the-black-church-is-dead-long-live-the-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3528 dmf Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:01:28 +0000 http://nildoctrine.com/nil/?p=358#comment-3528 there never was a "black church" singular, but if we are talking about the church as community center than this has died with the loss of our communities, forget about love of neighbor we don't even know our neighbors till their kids end up on the local news. the church was a kind of parallel govt for people locked out of govt but now that this is changing the institution has to find a new civic purpose or fight for it's place in the market of ideas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPsxL55zY4Q&feature=player_embedded there never was a “black church” singular, but if we are talking about the church as community center than this has died with the loss of our communities, forget about love of neighbor we don’t even know our neighbors till their kids end up on the local news. the church was a kind of parallel govt for people locked out of govt but now that this is changing the institution has to find a new civic purpose or fight for it’s place in the market of ideas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPsxL55zY4Q&feature=player_embedded

]]> By: Johnny http://nildoctrine.com/nil/the-black-church-is-dead-long-live-the-black-church/comment-page-1/#comment-3527 Johnny Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:01:06 +0000 http://nildoctrine.com/nil/?p=358#comment-3527 I don't know about the death of the black church, but despite being white, Irish and raised Catholic, i can identify with the sentiment. I consider myself a stubborn agnostic in that I believe in God because I can't or won't accept that when I die all that’s left of me is a decaying body, a few possessions or even just memories and a name. If that’s all there is at my passing, a glorified imprint, nothing but a shape in the mud saying ‘I was here… but now I’m not!’, well, to me that’s not an option. But that aside, what I'm witnessing here in Ireland is people taking a hard line against Catholic priests in particular and any kind of cleric/holy man in general. And before anyone says it, I know about the clerical sex abuse and i abhor it like any moral person, but there's something else at work here too. I think worldwide as a society, we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater where religion is concerned. We're tearing down an institution, whether it's Protestant, Catholic or otherwise, without any idea of what we're going to build in it's place. And if you do that, if you destroy what you see as just an ugly edifice without figuring out what you're going to fill that vacuum with you end up with just a barren, rubble-strewn wasteland. Faith has become a bad word, a new kind of prejudice (as if we need another!) and what's worse, it's becoming socially acceptable to scoff and deride people of faith. Do I believe in totally Blind Faith myself? No, not really. But i DO believe that faith is part of being human, it's integral to the species, regardless of nation or colour or gender. I have FAITH in my fellow man's ability to do the right thing, even if I'm sometimes disappointed. I have FAITH in love, otherwise I'd have no place being a married man and I'd never have married the wondeful woman I did. And i have some faith in God, however tenuous and delicate a thing that is in this world right now. Either way, I think it's something we've always needed and always will. Even after, as Douglas Adams said, God has disappeared in a puff of logic. Loving the music, by yhe way! I don’t know about the death of the black church, but despite being white, Irish and raised Catholic, i can identify with the sentiment. I consider myself a stubborn agnostic in that I believe in God because I can’t or won’t accept that when I die all that’s left of me is a decaying body, a few possessions or even just memories and a name. If that’s all there is at my passing, a glorified imprint, nothing but a shape in the mud saying ‘I was here… but now I’m not!’, well, to me that’s not an option.

But that aside, what I’m witnessing here in Ireland is people taking a hard line against Catholic priests in particular and any kind of cleric/holy man in general. And before anyone says it, I know about the clerical sex abuse and i abhor it like any moral person, but there’s something else at work here too. I think worldwide as a society, we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater where religion is concerned. We’re tearing down an institution, whether it’s Protestant, Catholic or otherwise, without any idea of what we’re going to build in it’s place. And if you do that, if you destroy what you see as just an ugly edifice without figuring out what you’re going to fill that vacuum with you end up with just a barren, rubble-strewn wasteland.

Faith has become a bad word, a new kind of prejudice (as if we need another!) and what’s worse, it’s becoming socially acceptable to scoff and deride people of faith.

Do I believe in totally Blind Faith myself? No, not really. But i DO believe that faith is part of being human, it’s integral to the species, regardless of nation or colour or gender. I have FAITH in my fellow man’s ability to do the right thing, even if I’m sometimes disappointed. I have FAITH in love, otherwise I’d have no place being a married man and I’d never have married the wondeful woman I did. And i have some faith in God, however tenuous and delicate a thing that is in this world right now.

Either way, I think it’s something we’ve always needed and always will. Even after, as Douglas Adams said, God has disappeared in a puff of logic.

Loving the music, by yhe way!

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