Comments on: The Wikileaks video.

By: Riichard Walker

Riichard Walker — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 17:50:34 +0000

Here’s a link to a long Buzz thread that includes at least one ex-military commenter. The post starts with an email excerpt (w. permission) from an ex-military friend of Thomas’, about this issue.

http://www.google.com/buzz/thomashawk22/Q9d5dRaKVqm/New-York-Times-article-on-the-video-that-was

By: Mór Rígan

Mór Rígan — Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:32:59 +0000

Best book I ever read on the subject is “The Lucifer Effect” by Robert Zimbardo. He was the one who conducted the Stanford prison experiment and gave expert testimony at the trial of one of the Abu Graib torturers. It’s fascinating reading.

I’ve used his theories to try and explain the level of child sexual abuse in the Irish Catholic Church.

By: Calvin

Calvin — Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:42:06 +0000

Just a quick comment on Wikileaks: I lost a lot of respect for their organization after seeing the edited video they put together. Up until this incident I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that they just released information to the public without editorial comment. I don’t see the point of editing the video in this way other than to bias the viewer towards the idea that the soldiers behaved incorrectly. In my opinion, the only way to make this decision is by having the complete context of what happened that day (the long, unedited video along with information on what had recently transpired in that area and what that helicopter was doing there in the first place). Kind of makes me wish I could go back and cancel the donation I made…

By: Dale A

Dale A — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:58:53 +0000

Wrote about the lack of critical response from Reuters here – http://wp.me/pu4oB-3Q – something about the lack of response from mainstream media shows how uncritical many journalists have been forced to become in order to maintain their access to the inner circles of politics and power. That may scare me as much as the horrific lack of normal human emotions shown by the helicopter crews in the video.

By: hcd

hcd — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:27:40 +0000

Though I have more doubt about whether the rules of engagement were followed, I have no experience to say what I could base that one. Here’s another cautious response from George Packer of the New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/georgepacker/2010/04/truth-but-not-the-whole-truth.html

By: Conklusion

Conklusion — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 17:52:58 +0000

Jay,

I think that this post can help you see another perspective.
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/bne6x/you_people_kill_me/

By: thestutefish

thestutefish — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 16:48:01 +0000

The best books I’ve read about this thus far are Chris Hedges’ War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning (http://www.amazon.com/War-Force-that-Gives-Meaning/dp/1400034639) and Kristian Williams’ American Methods: Torture and the Logic of Domination (http://www.amazon.com/American-Methods-Torture-Logic-Domination/dp/0896087530/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270658548&sr=1-1)

Hedges was a war reporter for years, and is also the author of the quietly damning What Every Person Should Know About War (http://www.amazon.com/What-Every-Person-Should-About/dp/0743255127/ref=tmm_pap_title_0). Williams is an activist and anarchist who has also written about the history of police brutality in America; his introductory chapters cover a lot of the psychology (Zimbardo and the Stanford Prison Experiment, the Milgram experiment, etc.) around dehumanization and the justification of violence, and he’s very good at exploring the larger social power structures that enable it.

I can’t recommend these books strongly enough.

By: jay

jay — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 15:30:25 +0000

the economist blog covers it quite well i think:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/04/fog_war

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/04/iraq_collateral_damage

By: Shining

Shining — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:55:10 +0000

I was fortunate enough to visit the Wiesbaden Air Force Base during my trip to Germany last Spring. I was startled by what I found.

Despite what the media tells you: OUR SOLDIERS JUST WANT OUT OF THERE!

Yes, there are some that enjoy the blood and gore of war. There are going to be people like that on all sides of any war. And yes, they probably all have to distance themselves in some capacity from the every day rigors of their job. But just like the men in this video, these are human beings with families and they are doing a job (a job many of them signed up for before Bush conned us into a war we had no business starting), and unlike the rest of us, they don’t have the choice of quitting, so they are just trying to get home to their loved ones in one piece.

That doesn’t make what these soldiers did right in any way. But treating our soldiers like they are the problem isn’t going to fix anything.

By: Jo

Jo — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:49:25 +0000

This is what happens in war. It is normal for war. What is truly wrong here is the war itself. Debating the rights and wrongs of the men on the ground (with weapons in their hands to fire and weapons being fired at them) is subscribing to the idea that you can conduct war in some safe or ethical way. I was revolted by the video, but what on earth do people think is happening over there? Tea parties?